19 February, 2006

Women, Men, and Discipline

It was reported in Scientific American, from Nature Online, Jan 18.

Seeing a person who behaved unfairly get an electric shock triggered the empathy areas in women's brains, but in men the reward centers were activated instead. Men may find pleasure in retribution, although both sexes reported disliking the unfair person.

Interesting.

Anyone care to take a guess why? What might be the implications?

12 comments:

Milly said...

God made women better! Ha Ha. We are trained from the get go, boys- trucks, girls-dolls. As we develope our brains develope. a baby not yet born has a smooth brain. Women have different dents so to speak. It's societies fault that you big burly men are like that.

Danny Kaye said...

Eeeewwww!! What a yucky question...But I'm game. :-)

I will maintain my previous stance that Jesus had the perfect balance of all human emotions.

The trouble is exactly what Millie pointed out: "It's societies' fault.".

It is society that taught me to: Be self-centered,
take care of myself,
don't let anyone else in,
look out for number one,
blah...blah...blah...

If not for my wife seeing how out of touch I was with my own emotions, I would still bespiritually stymied by my own stoicism.

Praise God my wife wanted more than that from me and helped me learn what was going on on the inside.

I don't pretend that I know for sure about this; but I do believe we are all given the same emotional slate at birth. It is up to us to either allow society to lay claim to it, or take it upon ourselves to disciple/train our emotions to obey Christ.

codepoke said...

Wow, you both surprise me! Cool answers.

You both believe that society has the ability to overrule the kind of hard-wiring it would take to make men happy to take retribution on unjustice. This is going to sound stupid, but that idea never crossed my mind.

I don't see retribution as a bad thing. God promises it, and seems to mete it out without remorse. As a manager at work, if I do not make sure that everyone is treated fairly the bullies will win. I have to deal with one of my guys in just a couple days. I cannot say I am looking forward to it, but I will take pleasure in knowing that the weaker members of my team were protected.

I see this difference as a part of the image of God that we are.


Genesis 1:26 TNIV
Then God said, "Let us make human beings in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule ... So God created human beings in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.


I don't think society could make boys play with dolls. Well, to correct myself, I don't they they could make boys play non-aggressively with dolls.

Society can turn aggression into violence, but I don't think it can turn it off. I praise God for that.

God made women better!

This I will concede. I'm a little "off", but I'm not insane enough to argue this one!

I will maintain my previous stance that Jesus had the perfect balance of all human emotions.

When you said this last week, I had not ever thought through the question you implied. Did Jesus have perfect human emotions, or perfect male emotions?

I'm pretty sure you would contend that there are only perfect human emotions. I am trying that on for size.

I don't think I can go there. The brain of a woman is different - significantly different - from that of a man. The hemispheres of their brains communicate with each other much more fluently than ours do. Hence, women multi-task much better than men do (hence our babies survive to adolesence!)

I will keep thinking about this.

Either way, Jesus was perfect. He was both strong and sensitive. He was in touch with His real feelings. The blockage American men have from their hearts is definitely the curse of the fall in our society, and Jesus was above that. I'm with you there!

Milly said...

I agree that we are wired differently women have different hormonal stuff than men so we are to be better mothers and men better fathers. (not wanting the single parent arguement I realize they can fill in the gaps I also know the studies about a missing parent) I do though feel that society tell us boys are tough. For instance my little girl discovered her brother last summer suddenly he was the coolest guy to hang with so now she love video games and what he likes. When with his friends she tries to hang with the big boys (yes he hates it he is caught between protector and sister hater) When she is with her aunt or her little friends it's all shoes and look at your cute jeans and giggling lots of giggling. She is trying to figure it all out as to who she wants to be.

We have always let them make those choices. My son is not a jock he swims and that's about it. He is the brain boy. My daughter wants to ride horses, broncs bucking broncs she wants to kick balls and have a pink bedroom with horses and princess stuff.

I love boxing, cigars, hockey, and a good chick flick that makes me cry. Influance from both parents. ( mom loved hockey dad cigars)

It was a joke that women are better. (I don't want no cry baby men after me)

What's my point? (what is my point?) Some is hormonal and stuff some is how you are raised and where.

Jesus was extrodanary He was and is our all in all.

codepoke said...

Thanks, Milly. I'm with you on all that.

I love boxing, cigars, hockey, and a good chick flick that makes me cry.

Boxing is cool, though cigars and hockey don't do a thing for me.

As for the chick flicks, I ain't say'n nothin'! ;-)

Danny Kaye said...

I am always reminding myself that Jesus is God in the flesh when trying to deal with these types of issues.
Obviously there are hundreds of scriptures that address our great and awesome God as “Father”. And Jesus had the qualities and emotions of his Father.

But God makes it very clear that He is able to be Mr. Mom as well.
Isaiah 66:13
As a mother comforts her child,
so will I comfort you;
and you will be comforted over Jerusalem."
And because Jesus is God in the flesh, He, too owned these motherly qualities. Remember how the children flocked to Him and He embraced them and rebuked the disciples because they were not being motherly. Yeah, that’s interpretation. But it’s my interpretation, and that makes it right.
;-)

Look at Paul. He understood that losing the hard, strict, macho exterior of how the world has always taught men to be, it would free him up to learn and grow in the emotions that women have held a monopoly on for way too long.
Here are a coupla examples:
1 Thes. 2:7
but we were gentle among you, like a mother caring for her little children.

Galatians 4:19
My dear children, for whom I am again in the pains of childbirth until Christ is formed in you,

I do not deny that there are differences in male and female emotional strengths. But I would submit that God made it that way so that we could learn from one another’s emotional abilities, not so that we men could keep the ones we have and let the women keep the ones they have; and never the twain shall meet.

I doubt that any married couple that has successfully built a strong marriage over a period of many years did so by only holding to their “natural” emotional tendencies.

No, God is filled with the emotions of men and women; as was Jesus.

Now, here is a scripture that will address your original post:
Genesis 6:5-7
The Lord saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time. [6] The Lord was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain. [7] So the Lord said, "I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth--men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air--for I am grieved that I have made them."

When God feels grief, it is true grief, unimaginable to you and I because it is pure and untainted by sinful attitudes.
And when God needs to administer His discipline, He does so with the most pure and untainted motives, not with a mixture of a pure love for justice with a bit of “serves-em-right” mixed in.

MIlly said...

yeh babeee! Love ya DK.

codepoke said...

But I would submit that God made it that way so that we could learn from one another’s emotional abilities, not so that we men could keep the ones we have and let the women keep the ones they have; and never the twain shall meet.

Gotcha. I agree that the twain meet. What happens when that happens is another issue, though!

Now, here is a scripture that will address your original post:
Genesis 6:5-7


This passage teaches how God repented of creating man, but not a word is spoken of Him repenting His destruction of those who violated His holiness. I don't believe this proves the point you are making.

codepoke said...

I don't like my answer. It is trite. I don't know how much better I can make it, because I simply disagree, but maybe I can state your position back to you and let you correct me.

God has made men and women equal. There are some natural differences, but each can aspire to the other's natural talents. You therefore conclude that men should be able to give to the church the gifts for which I would say we should look to women.

I would say that it is somewhat rare for a man to do truly well and naturally in those things women do best, and vice versa. Therefore, we should allow each to function as he or she is gifted, without regard to sex.

Danny Kaye said...

Well, ok. I'm no good with semantics so I won't push the issue. You understood my main point which means I communicated at least that part properly. That's good enough for me.

Danny Kaye said...

Hmmm...

I would say that it is somewhat rare for a man to do truly well and naturally in those things women do best, and vice versa. Therefore, we should allow each to function as he or she is gifted, without regard to sex.

Hmmm...

Why do I have a problem with that statement?

I understand the rarity of it. But I think I have a problem with settling for it being rare if the expectation is otherwise. The call is for us to perfect ourselves in Christ, (which I assume you agree is a valid statement. But if not, I’m sure you will let me know.) J

With an imitation of Christ’s perfection being the goal, settling for less is unacceptable. I also pose to you that your reference to “naturally” is simply due to our sinful nature. It is more natural for me to be less sensitive than my wife. Agreed. But doesn’t that simply point to my sinful nature?

Please understand that I am not suggesting that we men walk around like sissies, or act effeminate in any way. But to be sympathetic, empathetic, caring, emotional males is simply to be like Christ. If that last statement is biblically correct, then let’s grow and stop settling for less.

(BTW: I know I commented that I wasn't gona push the issue. But that was in reference to two comments ago. You just happened to post that last comment while I was posting mine.)

codepoke said...

The call is for us to perfect ourselves in Christ,

Agreed!

Please understand that I am not suggesting that we men walk around like sissies, or act effeminate in any way.

Me either, and I never would think that of you.

I know I commented that I wasn't gona push the issue.


No complaints here! You bring up great questions. Thank you.

1 Corinthians 12:21 TNIV
The eye cannot say to the hand, "I don't need you!" And the head cannot say to the feet, "I don't need you!"


I simply mean that the hand can be perfect without ever being able to see, and the eye can be perfect without ever being able to throw.

If the church needs a power lifter, the odds-on shot is that it will be looking for a man to fill that role. But, if the best lifter in the church happens to be a woman, I don't believe the scripture demands that she be denied the role.

Let each function according as s/he is variously gifted by the Spirit.