tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20104292.post2337524671192066181..comments2024-02-10T21:04:22.822-05:00Comments on The Familyhood Church: Divorce, Reconciliation, Remarriage and RemarriageKevin Knoxhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16788817477327510023noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20104292.post-44153353729921726202008-07-31T23:12:00.000-04:002008-07-31T23:12:00.000-04:00Hello Catus,I hear the pain. I've been there. Of c...Hello Catus,<BR/><BR/>I hear the pain. I've been there. Of course, my wife was not a Christian, so she could not possibly have cared any less what any church would have said. She was, in fact, blatantly anti-Christian by the time she left and might have enjoyed trashing whatever the church had to say. <BR/><BR/>I gather your wife is still inclined to Christianity. <BR/><BR/>That does make life complicated. <BR/><BR/>Save yourself a lot of heartache, and find a way to grant her every benefit of the doubt, and live at peace with(out) her as much as you are able. Give her all the room she could ever hope for, and be fair to the point of giving if you possibly can. I'm not telling you to let her rob you blind, but be fair before she has to ask. You will greatly appreciate the simple decency and peace this will give the rest of your life. <BR/><BR/>As a practical way of achieving that end (since it's so against nature as to be ridiculous) is not just to quote Christ to yourself day and and day out. Find yourself a wise, brave counselor who's willing to tell you when you're doing something right and question you when you're doing something questionable. I'm not talking about marriage counseling, but about personal counseling. And you may not need all that spooky stuff or drugs or anything. You probably just need wise, objective, brave counsel. <BR/><BR/>You'll be so glad you spent the money. <BR/><BR/>May the Lord keep you until the last day.Kevin Knoxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16788817477327510023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20104292.post-22407967977417127882008-07-31T13:34:00.000-04:002008-07-31T13:34:00.000-04:00well, some reading here. My wife has decided to ba...well, some reading here. My wife has decided to bail. Restraining order, the whole bit. All wrong, and the church should have something to say about this. Courts, the state, lawyers.. their interest is in conflict. Reconciliation is not in their interest. Going to the state to disolve your marriage, without first trying to save it, is waaaaay outside the rules for a Christian, and the church should have something to say about that. <BR/><BR/>I detest the state, and lawyers, and all those who benefit from dissolving marriages rather than helping them.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17419872282677179963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20104292.post-7641029497677787972007-07-08T06:11:00.000-04:002007-07-08T06:11:00.000-04:00Lynne,Abuse is abuse and mental abuse does damage....Lynne,<BR/><BR/>Abuse is abuse and mental abuse does damage. She should leave him. God may not have every situation spelled out nice and neat for us in the Bible but Jesus shows us how we are to treat each other. Mental abuse leads to some pretty hard conclusions eventually she’ll find herself against a wall and her decision will be to walk away or give up. She should walk away and seek help so that she can move on with her life. There are lots of great guys out in the world who don’t hurt women.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20104292.post-72500088341001814912007-07-08T05:04:00.000-04:002007-07-08T05:04:00.000-04:00What do i think? I know there's no scriptural warr...What do i think? I know there's no scriptural warrant, but in cases of significant physical abuse I humanly would allow remarriage. once upon a time I would have been much more hardline, but to say she is still bound to the person whowas so cruel to her is to give him a continuing power over her life that he has forfeited any right to. I have also seen women who have only been healed from the damage of a previous husband's abuse by experiencing the love of a decent man. Is that wrong? <BR/><BR/>For me it grows more problematic when you talk about less blatant forms of abuse? What about the woman whose husband would never lay a hand to her, but who finds a hundred ways of verbal and emotional abuse to shred her soul. At what point does she say "enough!" where along the continuum do we draw a line? I wish I knew! (and yes, someone I care about is in such a messy situation)<BR/><BR/>As for unconditional respect, no you can't make yourself respect someone who has seriously lost your respect (especially if they are unrepentant)but there is a place in Christ where you can find a way through, not by lying to yourself a calling bad things good, but by honouring them as someone made in the image of God who has the potential, in Christ, to become so much more than what he is now, and you can honour that potential even when there is no way you can honour what they are presently doing. just a thought ..Lynnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10982043538182690871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20104292.post-55444081869399576282007-07-07T20:46:00.000-04:002007-07-07T20:46:00.000-04:00I know where my husbands short comings are but I s...I know where my husbands short comings are but I still respect him because his strengths out weight it all. Sure I get angry with him he isn’t perfect, something I’m thankful for because I fall short of perfect a lot. I see that he has some great qualities. I think that women at times fail to see the men in front of them because they focus on the stuff that sets them off while the things that are the good are just furniture so to speak. They are there and you pay very little attention to them until they break or are moved. Then you miss them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20104292.post-70238666792102569912007-07-07T20:16:00.000-04:002007-07-07T20:16:00.000-04:00Wow, KB. Tough one. I remember you putting that po...Wow, KB. Tough one. <BR/><BR/>I remember you putting that post up, and I wanted badly to say something about it, but I could not figure out what to say. Eventually, the moment had passed, and I just let it slip. <BR/><BR/>All respect is earned. There is no such thing as unconditional respect. Yet Paul commands the wife to respect her husband. What a horrible place to be, to be married to a man who cannot earn respect, but must be respected. <BR/><BR/>I think there are a couple of things at work there. First, the woman lives with the man, so she knows all his weaknesses intimately - along with his intimate weaknesses. She has to guard against only seeing the very real weak parts of her man. The correct answer is not to quit seeing the weaknesses, but to weigh them against the strengths as often as she can. <BR/><BR/>Not being a woman, I have no idea whether that's even close to right, but that's what it seems like. Being a man, though, I can testify without reserve that a woman who does not find that in her man worthy of respect will make that prophecy come truer than she could even imagine. We need respect at home in a deep, unspeakable, cornerstone kind of way. If we don't have it, we fall. <BR/><BR/>Restoring lost respect is genius-level work, though. It's not just a simple command/obey everything's OK kind of deal.Kevin Knoxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16788817477327510023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20104292.post-86171178098846887352007-07-07T08:58:00.000-04:002007-07-07T08:58:00.000-04:00I agree with you about mutual respect CP. What do ...I agree with you about mutual respect CP. What do you think about <A HREF="http://eye4redemption.blogspot.com/2006/01/unconditional-love-and-respect.html" REL="nofollow">unconditional respect</A>?kc bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17440862813109808755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20104292.post-29338802598701995832007-07-06T19:05:00.000-04:002007-07-06T19:05:00.000-04:00As some know abuse is a hot issue with me. I’ll po...As some know abuse is a hot issue with me. I’ll post on it when I have time the worship slides need me for now. I will say that we need to give to shelters. When they leave they leave with very little sometimes sneaking out in the middle of the night. The better the shelters are the better the chance of them not going back to the abuser and things won’t be better because now he/she knows that they would leave so the danger is greater. <BR/><BR/>Think about your local domestic violence intervention when you want to help someone in need.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20104292.post-80257672914221913792007-07-06T18:48:00.000-04:002007-07-06T18:48:00.000-04:00These people do counseling on abuse as an organiza...These people do counseling on abuse as an organization. They come highly recommended by people I trust. <BR/>http://www.peaceandsafety.comKevin Knoxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16788817477327510023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20104292.post-49259616233156800332007-07-06T18:40:00.001-04:002007-07-06T18:40:00.001-04:00Thank you, Milly. Well said.Thank you, Milly. Well said.Kevin Knoxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16788817477327510023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20104292.post-59426508652178568972007-07-06T18:40:00.000-04:002007-07-06T18:40:00.000-04:00Thanks for the rant, KB. I have adjusted my positi...Thanks for the rant, KB. <BR/><BR/>I have adjusted my position slightly on this since I last posted on it last year. Then I said that respect is the lynchpin. If either party loses respect for the other, the marriage is terminal. And if a marriage is hurting, the right answer is to restore that respect of the stronger member for the weaker. <BR/><BR/>I think I now see that commitment without warmth was probably the error of an older generation. And warmth without commitment is the error of ours. I still think respect is the cornerstone, but I've expanded my thinking a bit. <BR/><BR/>I too am talking with members of couples that are close to ending things, so I am very interested in your take on the importance of respect. Do you agree that it is the cornerstone, or is it just a piece of the puzzle?Kevin Knoxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16788817477327510023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20104292.post-59074554947911153742007-07-06T18:35:00.000-04:002007-07-06T18:35:00.000-04:00Thanks, Lynne. I did not address abuse, because Je...Thanks, Lynne. <BR/><BR/>I did not address abuse, because Jesus didn't. But I figured I could comment on it later. <BR/><BR/>Milly is pragmatically correct. And I think even misled Christians who advise women to stay in abusive relationships for the sake of mercy, or hope, or obedience to their misunderstanding of the word of God agree that there's not much hope. An abuser does not change within a marriage. There is no pragmatic answer but to leave. <BR/><BR/>But is leaving scriptural? The abused woman (and it's usually the woman) often cares deeply about the abuser and about the standards of God. And that care is usually unhealthy in both cases. And that care is usually used against her, again in both cases, and by her friends, enemies, acquaintances, and church leaders. She is truly worried about offending God by leaving, and it takes a lot to make her feel safe in leaving. <BR/><BR/>She needs to leave. Like Milly says, she needs to leave and not believe all her abuser's promises of doing better. And that process of leaving needs to end in a legal divorce if that's what it takes to give her back a real life and health. <BR/><BR/>But is that scriptural?<BR/><BR/>Religious leaders have tried to help victims by saying that abuse is as bad as or worse than fornication, so the abused is free to leave. I almost roll with that. Fornication and abuse are different, though. Both break hearts, but only one brings in a third party. <BR/><BR/>I'm with Milly. Get out and stay out. And the church needs to step in and help the victim to get out and stay out. This victim will need a place to live and help to start a new life. She'll need help with her resolution to do the brave thing, and leave. She will need protection from a known violent man. She will need friends to fill the void in her life. And she'll need legal help to make sure the kids are safely away with her, and cared for when she's not able to be there, and, and, and. <BR/><BR/>Jesus' statements are not explicit here, but I think He clearly allows divorce in this situation. I believe common sense supports this divorce, too. <BR/><BR/>I don't believe, however, that remarriage is allowed after fleeing abuse. <BR/><BR/>This is just human reasoning, but here it is. <BR/><BR/>1) The abuser will probably remarry, making the point moot.<BR/>2) The relationship has been shredded, but as long as there's a wisp of smoke left, there's an opportunity for healing. <BR/>3) The abuser is human, and within the reach of the love of God. When there's no other woman brought in, there is still room for a miracle. <BR/><BR/>There's another point that I did not bring up in my post. I just could not quite make it flow, but it's important. An over-quick remarriage results in a repeat of the first's mistakes. I don't know how long someone should wait, but it's sure more than a year or two. <BR/><BR/>We all stand the risk of marrying the wrong person again, and in the case of victims of abuse, there is an even greater possibility that they will enter a second abusive relationship. So,<BR/><BR/>4) Not marrying again stops the cycle. <BR/><BR/>I say, divorce an abuser with a 100% clean conscience, but not in hopes of marrying again. <BR/><BR/>What do you think?Kevin Knoxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16788817477327510023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20104292.post-26971448082006242982007-07-06T14:35:00.000-04:002007-07-06T14:35:00.000-04:00If you are in an abusive relationship GET OUT! It ...If you are in an abusive relationship GET OUT! It hurts you and your children. It’s a rare thing for an abusive relationship to get better. To stay is putting your life at risk. It is the most common cause of injury to women ages 15 to 44.<BR/><BR/>The abuser is good at convincing himself/herself that they will stop and even better at convincing those involved. He/she will say it over and over again they will go to the minister or to a therapist then tell you they won’t do it again. Most hurt again. <BR/><BR/>I have seen what it does to a family and I can assure you that God doesn’t want that to happen to his children.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20104292.post-53862801136617641972007-07-06T10:29:00.000-04:002007-07-06T10:29:00.000-04:00I have walked with 3 couples in counseling since l...I have walked with 3 couples in counseling since last September ... I held out real hope for 2 of the 3 marriages even though I got involved 5 minutes after midnight - all 3 marriages were seemingly over by the time I met with the couples.<BR/><BR/>Sadly, these couples spent years and years of settling for marriages that were increasingly cold, uncommunicating, unloving and passionless. My advice for anyone in such a marriage is to do something before it is past midnight in their marriage. Find a way to open up communication - attend a marriage weekend with your spouse, seek out counseling or talk to a pastor for advice.<BR/><BR/>On the plus side, sessions like these motivate me to push harder in premarital counseling sessions helping folks to communicate at a heart level and really get to know each other before they walk down the aisle.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the post CP and sorry for the rant. This topic is one close to my heart.<BR/><BR/>Blessings, KBkc bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17440862813109808755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20104292.post-20209936116344158512007-07-06T03:48:00.000-04:002007-07-06T03:48:00.000-04:00Wow! There is so much in this I hardly know how to...Wow! There is so much in this I hardly know how to respond. But I think you've cut to the heart of the matter in addressing whether the partner is truly christian. So many talk the talk (and even the doctrine) but when things move beyond their narcissistic comfort zone they prove to have self-serving and unrepentant hearts. My only question is, what do you think of divorce in cases of significant (and continuing) abuse?Lynnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10982043538182690871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20104292.post-31715737135230401832007-07-05T23:08:00.000-04:002007-07-05T23:08:00.000-04:00From your heart. Very good sir.From your heart. Very good sir.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com