tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20104292.post117021677658419095..comments2024-02-10T21:04:22.822-05:00Comments on The Familyhood Church: FHC: Politics 101Kevin Knoxhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16788817477327510023noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20104292.post-1170522107433354472007-02-03T12:01:00.000-05:002007-02-03T12:01:00.000-05:00Missy,Pearlie, please tell me if I am missing your...Missy,<BR/><EM>Pearlie, please tell me if I am missing your point</EM><BR/><BR/>No, you didn't. That is a good way of putting it -- politicking to God's agenda. And a tough one too, at least for me :)pearliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17142595255771626179noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20104292.post-1170391918572651912007-02-01T23:51:00.000-05:002007-02-01T23:51:00.000-05:00What, that it is highly likey that I am a fool? :...What, that it is highly likey that I am a fool? :-)Missyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16638784910676212171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20104292.post-1170389336792201392007-02-01T23:08:00.000-05:002007-02-01T23:08:00.000-05:00Amen, Missy!Amen, Missy!Kevin Knoxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16788817477327510023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20104292.post-1170388442189991652007-02-01T22:54:00.000-05:002007-02-01T22:54:00.000-05:00No, cp, I don't believe:people think i am a fool =...No, cp, I don't believe:<BR/><BR/>people think i am a fool = i am a good christian.<BR/><BR/>If people think I am a fool, there is a 99.9% chance I actually am one.<BR/><BR/>But just because people think I am a fool does means I am a bad christian.<BR/><BR/>What I was saying was along Pearlie's point of trying to reconcile my politicking with God's agenda rather than my own. (Pearlie, please tell me if I am missing your point)<BR/><BR/><I>"If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you." Luke 6:29-31</I><BR/><BR/>The verse above would suggest that I should give whatever I am asked to give. It does not say that I cannot ask for what I desire, but it does not say what I give should be conditional to getting what I desire. If you practice this you would definitely be considered foolish - by most chrisitians, too. You would have no foothold in negotiations if you simply gave into requests with no expectation of reciprocation.<BR/><BR/>However, could you imagine how effective this would be in a group of believers that actually practiced it? Just a thought.Missyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16638784910676212171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20104292.post-1170373831601592122007-02-01T18:50:00.000-05:002007-02-01T18:50:00.000-05:00Hey Missy,I like where you went with this. I agree...Hey Missy,<BR/><BR/>I like where you went with this. I agree, in their minds it is still foolishness. And you are right about the daytime TV. The same message is given out at work and school and everywhere. <BR/><BR/>Let me go a little longer, though, and argue with the codepoke of 1997. 10 years ago, people really avoided me. They still don't exactly flock to me, but I don't see people crossing the street when I turn the corner any more. When I was a bureaucratic bully, my life was worse. <BR/><BR/>I'm not sure you are saying this, but I always did, so I am arguing with myself here (does that mean I win?) I always thought that people thinking poorly of me was an indication of spirituality. They thought I was a fool because I was being so principled a Christian. Looking back, they thought I was a fool because I was a horrible politician. My heart has not gotten better over the last 10 years, just my skills. I don't care for people more, but two or three times better. <BR/><BR/>I solemnly affirm that the people around me are all much nicer than the people who were around me 10 years ago. I don't think that's because I'm around better people. I am sure it's because I'm better people. <BR/><BR/>That's point #1. <BR/><BR/>Point #2 is that most of them don't think me a fool. <BR/><BR/>I almost never find myself in a position where I really need to sacrifice anything for the other guy to get what he needs. And I almost never find myself in a position where the other guy has to sacrifice anything to give what I need. The issue is not sacrifice, but diligence. If I diligently pursue both our needs, I can usually find a way to make us both happy. <BR/><BR/>10 years ago I would not have thought that possible. The problem is I would have said things very much like you are saying. But that does not mean that you are making the mistakes I made then! I still had to point those mistakes out, though. When I finally read some books on the subject, 1997 or so, it was SOOOOO hard for me to believe that I could be a Christian and people like me. Once I turned that corner, though, I never looked back. <BR/><BR/>Well that's not true. Even as I write this, a sad little corner of my mind fears that I have forsaken the true path, but I will get over it. :-)Kevin Knoxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16788817477327510023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20104292.post-1170341264316275022007-02-01T09:47:00.000-05:002007-02-01T09:47:00.000-05:00Would you agree that most often, though, when we p...<I>Would you agree that most often, though, when we put others first they call us blessed, and wonder why we are so kind - as opposed to foolish?</I><BR/><BR/>The CALL one blessed, but then <B>wonder</B> - in their mind it is still a bit of foolishness.<BR/><BR/>Parents today (mothers in particuler on day-time TV!) are constantly told "you have to put yourself first." There is something to that - being responsible for your own well-being both physically and spiritually, but in the world it goes beyond that. It often borders on entitlement. This is the example I see most clearly.<BR/><BR/>I think politics battle this idea of entitlement often. "If I get what I want, you can have anything you want." Many professional politicians have spoiled the word for you because they are not at the table to develop the best for everyone. Once they get out of it what they want, they really don't care what happens next. For it to work, everyone has to stay at the "table" til the end. To the one who does not, you know he is walking away saying, "Those fools, I got what I want and I am done!"Missyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16638784910676212171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20104292.post-1170302948515027322007-01-31T23:09:00.000-05:002007-01-31T23:09:00.000-05:00Hahaha. No, I think it's much better left complete...Hahaha. No, I think it's much better left completely theoretical. ;-)<BR/><BR/>I will have to think about this. You may or may not have noticed that I almost never tell stories about anyone but me. But when it comes to politics, that is no longer possible. And everyone who knows me knows about this blog. Do they all read it? I'm sure they do the one time I tell a story about them!<BR/><BR/>There is particular story that instantly springs to mind, because I failed, but I don't know that I can use it. <BR/><BR/>I'll sleep on it for a couple days.Kevin Knoxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16788817477327510023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20104292.post-1170300048066394112007-01-31T22:20:00.000-05:002007-01-31T22:20:00.000-05:00I loved that. I'd love to hear some stories thoug...I loved that. I'd love to hear some stories though, how you've played your way through some tough ones so I can kind of see how it's done in practice. Hope that's not too out of line ...Weekend Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10425001168670801073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20104292.post-1170296437514358712007-01-31T21:20:00.000-05:002007-01-31T21:20:00.000-05:00Great additions, Missy and Pearlie both. You're ri...Great additions, Missy and Pearlie both. You're right, of course, we can be called fools for sure when we put ourselves second. <BR/><BR/>Would you agree that most often, though, when we put others first they call us blessed, and wonder why we are so kind - as opposed to foolish?Kevin Knoxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16788817477327510023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20104292.post-1170293234959131802007-01-31T20:27:00.000-05:002007-01-31T20:27:00.000-05:00I am squarely against being a fool for Christ, exc...<EM>I am squarely against being a fool for Christ, except in holding to the truth of the gospel. </EM><BR/><BR/>I see that but what Missy said is so true - in any way we put ourselves second to anybody, we will be called fools. And most of the time when we hold on to the truth of the gospel, we will be called fools. Just take loving your neighbour as yourself, one of the great laws. I see this calling one of the most difficult - both in interpreting and practising.<BR/><BR/>My interpretation - the key is how I would love myself. I will want the best for myself. When I do wrong, I can even hate myself and do what I can to correct myself. I'd take thing in moderation - eat moderately, buy only when needed even though sometime I do spoil myself. So in the same way, I should love others.<BR/><BR/>In practice - wanting the best for others. So say, if someone I know does something wrong, I should do to him what I would do to myself or when someone is in need, I would need to go to him and help as I would do to myself in the same situation ... easier said than done, obviously. And in doing so, others see us as being fools, when we jeopardise our position.<BR/><BR/>But I suppose if we like you said <EM>learn what other's needs are, figure out a way to meet them all - <STRONG>including</STRONG> your own</EM> <STRONG>within</STRONG> the great laws, i.e. loving God and thus knowing what he decrees and demands, loving others as yourself and so wanting the best for them, we may be called fools but not for long.pearliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17142595255771626179noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20104292.post-1170291996439687322007-01-31T20:06:00.000-05:002007-01-31T20:06:00.000-05:00Missy,anytime you put your needs second to anyone ...Missy,<BR/><EM>anytime you put your needs second to anyone (especially God) the world often classifies you as a fool.</EM><BR/><BR/>So so true. I wonder how others see us when we do that (others as in unbelievers). Pearlie is just stupid. She does not know how to play the game. We don't have to worry about her.pearliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17142595255771626179noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20104292.post-1170291426206182612007-01-31T19:57:00.000-05:002007-01-31T19:57:00.000-05:00Tom,I agree. I have been attending my church for 2...Tom,<BR/>I agree. I have been attending my church for 29 years and seen too much manipulation. My prayers is for the people to be more God-centered and to realise that we are the body of Christ.pearliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17142595255771626179noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20104292.post-1170287946100559192007-01-31T18:59:00.000-05:002007-01-31T18:59:00.000-05:00It's cool that everyone liked that. Thank you. How...It's cool that everyone liked that. Thank you. <BR/><BR/><I>How then would you take this in line with "being a fool for Christ"?</I><BR/><BR/>Great question. <BR/><BR/>I will see your "fool" and raise you another:<BR/><I>2 Cor 11:16 & 20 I say again, Let no man think me a fool; if otherwise, yet as a fool receive me ... Howbeit whereinsoever any is bold, (I speak foolishly,) I am bold also.</I><BR/><BR/>I don't think Paul was saying that he chose to be foolish, but that he clung to a cross that the world could only see as foolish. <BR/><BR/>I am squarely against being a fool for Christ, except in holding to the truth of the gospel. The gospel makes the world's wisdom foolishness, but it does not make me foolish. It makes me wise, and teaches me to love men intelligently, not just emotionally.Kevin Knoxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16788817477327510023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20104292.post-1170287774864454262007-01-31T18:56:00.000-05:002007-01-31T18:56:00.000-05:00Pearlie - love the wisdom you added to the wisdom ...Pearlie - love the wisdom you added to the wisdom i already received! I think anytime you put your needs second to anyone (especially God) the world often classifies you as a fool.Missyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16638784910676212171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20104292.post-1170269889747519002007-01-31T13:58:00.000-05:002007-01-31T13:58:00.000-05:00WHOA! Great post. This is a keeper for my clippi...WHOA! Great post. This is a keeper for my clippings folder.<BR/><BR/>Can you imagine the world if we all lived by these "laws"?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20104292.post-1170262529803721862007-01-31T11:55:00.000-05:002007-01-31T11:55:00.000-05:00Perlie, I think your observations can be applied t...Perlie, I think your observations can be applied to the polical situations found in church organizations across the land. <BR/>Tom in SmalltownAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20104292.post-1170257668304114872007-01-31T10:34:00.000-05:002007-01-31T10:34:00.000-05:00To me politicking is really manipulation and easin...To me politicking is really manipulation and easing of oneself by whatever ways and means into a desireable state or position. And therefore your definition of "positive" politicking as <EM>the incredibly complex art of learning what everyone's needs are, and figuring out a way to meet them all - including your own.</EM> in the line of Matthew 22:37-40 is refreshing. Your take on the 9-point political process if taken together with Matthew 22:37-40 would be acceptable. The difference between the 2 strains of politicking I'd say would be that one is self-centered and the other God-centered. In trying to practice politics, it would be challenging to keep it to the latter.<BR/><BR/>How then would you take this in line with "being a fool for Christ"?pearliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17142595255771626179noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20104292.post-1170257509674510392007-01-31T10:31:00.000-05:002007-01-31T10:31:00.000-05:00I could say, "I wish people would attack issues th...I could say, "I wish people would attack issues this way." But it would probably be more helpful if I just do it. Codepoke, I think this is one of the wisest things I have ever had presented to me - although I must say, I am still pretty young :)Missyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16638784910676212171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20104292.post-1170254677441454092007-01-31T09:44:00.000-05:002007-01-31T09:44:00.000-05:00This is very interesting and speaks to life and in...This is very interesting and speaks to life and interaction in general, not just politics. Thank you for your honesty and introspection!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20104292.post-1170252264488202062007-01-31T09:04:00.000-05:002007-01-31T09:04:00.000-05:00Hello Codepoke. I appreciate your attempt to redee...Hello Codepoke. I appreciate your attempt to redeem the word, especially since I just entered the political circle by running for City Council. Two posts ago you mentioned a fellow who sees the church as a mob. That's interesting, since an honest look at the word ecclesia and its use during and after the time of Christ often reveals that it is used to describe many different groups, from politicians in impromptu or scheduled meetings to mobs of people (see Acts 19:24-41) who gather for a common purpose. In a sense, gatherings of politicians are very much like gatherings of like-minded Christians. They are trying to accomplish something that cannot be accomplished when people work alone. Although I'm not a part of an organized Christian group right now, I have nothing against them. Although I've often had something against politicians in my life, I now find myself becoming a part of the process. Since life experience is often the most important factor in our tendency to give definitions to words, I appreciate your studied approach to this very misunderstood word. Thanks. Tom in SmalltownAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20104292.post-1170236008319123662007-01-31T04:33:00.000-05:002007-01-31T04:33:00.000-05:00I am saving this to read on to go as I will be lea...I am saving this to read on to go as I will be leaving office right now (and I have a loooong weekend - it is our city day tomorrow and i am taking Friday off - woohoo!). This will be my first lesson in Politics 101 but the Two Great Laws of Politics being (1) Love the Lord with all your heart, soul, mind and strength and (2) Love your neighbor as yourself? I have to read this.pearliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17142595255771626179noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20104292.post-1170221271570124552007-01-31T00:27:00.000-05:002007-01-31T00:27:00.000-05:00I love politics. I love the game of it all. I know...I love politics. I love the game of it all. I know but I was raised in it, what’s a Milly to do? You’re right about not saying “No” people need the ownership at home, work, clubs, and church.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com